H-T Giants

H-T Giants

Connors 06 Jul 2015 14:50

Okay, so you had them as firbolgs and half-firbolgs in your original ideas. In 3E we went with a general, ceremonial race of giants. Those of H-T were referred to as the Fira.

I think we can make a subrace of giant-kin for the half-breeds. That would be cool.

But I have a few Q's.
1. Should we have full giants and half-giants in H-T? (I am happy to).
2. Who ARE the giants? Do we go back to firbolgs? Do we use something similar to firbolgs and continue to call them fira?
3. What sort of stats/powers are we looking at. If firbolg-like (as above), then this is answered. :)
4. What is their model culture? Firbolgs are Irish, but I take it this is not the case here. I actually thought that making the Giants Russian in influence would help with your blending of Russian and Asian/Japanese/Korean/Nepalese cultures.
5. Just to be clear. Giants rule the provinces. They have half-kin from mating with humans. Are any of the half-giants allowed to rule? DO they? (I take it there are still noble human houses in the provinces, they are just not the RULING house)?

(Also, when I ask all this, it does not have to be what you had initially, what we bashed together for Kage, I want to know what we do from here. Even how you really pictured these giants in your mind Blair. We can get back to how you really pictured this/them).

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“It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit.” – Harry S. Truman

Re: H-T Giants

Connors 09 Jul 2015 06:39

I just read our Giant race description for 3E, where there was one race that diverged with racial levels. I doubt we are taking this into 5E. I suggest we just go back to standard giants with subraces that have emerged.

This still means we have to resolve these H-T guys. Would love some info on initial ideas or where we go with them now.

In any case, rule out the 3E approach we took. I suggest we use our 5E Giant-Kin race (from main race page at CC) for the 'second-sons' or half-firbolgs. I just want to know whether to keep the name or the fira? And culturally what they are like - I guess the Q's above basically ;)

If recommending a source for DnD stats would help, I have read them in the:

2E Humanoids Handbook. The brown books. Look like normal humans grown to 10 1/2 feet. Live in remote forests and hills, have quite a Sylvan connection. Very literal adaptation of the rules. Magic powers (mostly illusions and altering size and appearance); swat missiles; never wear armor, neutral to chaotic good.
4E MM2. Several stats and Lore there. Focuses on them being masters of the hunt from the Feywild with priests/seers with moon-based magic.
1E MM2. I think they are in there. Book is out in shed.

I still have these books. I am sure I could find the 3E versions too. Apparently in MM2 for 3E. (I do not have a copy of this unfortunately - just checked).

If any of these sources sound like a good source for flavour and stats, please give me a heads up. If no one els gives me some direction, I am going to try and write them up soon. (I am starting on the racial pages).

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“It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit.” – Harry S. Truman

Last edited on 09 Jul 2015 07:13 by Connors Show more

Re: H-T Giants

Vamprey 09 Jul 2015 13:47

While I thought that the level divergence was a pretty cool adn unique thing to Kage, I think you are right and it will be easier if we go back to standard giants and subraces.

I know that the half-firbolgs Blair got the idea from are similar to those from the Ogre's Pact novel set in FR. Which i think is the 2E one.

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Chaotic Good: Governments should be afraid of their people.

Re: H-T Giants

Vamprey 09 Jul 2015 13:51

Another option is to say that originally giants progressed along levels but over the years, inbreeding of similar levels has resulted in the new subraces, which are consitent in their abilities and are no longer effected by changes in levels.

i.e. after a while giants at hill giant level would only breed with other hill giant level giants, the resulting babies were hill giants from birth and no longer changed as they grew older /more powerful.

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Chaotic Good: Governments should be afraid of their people.

Re: H-T Giants

Connors 09 Jul 2015 13:56

I just say we completely forget the whole ceremonial advance. There have just evolved different races of giant (like all other races) over the years.

I just want to know some specifics regarding these giants of HT and how we go about implementing them, culturally AND stat-wise. ie what exact features would these guys have OR does the Monte Cook giants suit? That is the outlook we gave giants in 3E, where most are in 'war state', but these are in 'steward state'.

Perhaps Blair can read the Giant-Kin subraces over at CC and decide whether they suit mechanically, but we call them fira or something.

If not, what different powers do these half-breeds possess?

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“It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit.” – Harry S. Truman

Last edited on 09 Jul 2015 13:58 by Connors Show more

Re: H-T Giants

blairos 09 Jul 2015 20:55

So much questions….

Let's start with the whole Firbolg thing. This came from the novel Shane mentioned above The Ogre's Pact. The hero of that book was a half-firbolg, and the concept was enabled by the 1st edition Firbolg, which had the ability to use diminution, making the concept of interbreeding with humans much more plausible. There is no irish/celtic influence in Hazara-Thun giants.

I like the name Fira. It's unique, but serves as a reminder of where the ideas came from. I think we need to keep the diminution ability in whatever giant type we end up going with. I'm happy to use a variation of intelligent hill giants with magic. Hey, they could have been created by one of the ascended gods thousands of years ago to help stave off the advance of the dark god's minions.

So the basis for the Hazara-Thun setting was the Japanese/Korean settings. Some Russian did start coming in, more with place names than anything else, though I always wanted to introduce more (with some Germanic concepts also). I used to have a book of old Russion fairy tales (translated to English, obviously), plus some of the standard D&D concepts like Baba Yaga and witches, cossacks, etc. Another book that played a part in the development was The Stone and the Flute by Hans Bemmen. [I haven't read that book in years, might be time to get it out again].

So the Fira are the ruling class of the various clans/houses. The exception to this is the imperial line. The empire was formed when the humans from the south warred with the giant clans in the north. The war finished with the humans and the rulers of the giant clans signing the Treaty. This gave rulership of the lands to the giants, but that they in turn would swear fealty to the human emperor and would care for the humans under rule.

So the clans rule over the various provinces. Each of the clans is comprised of several houses. Typically the most powerful house from each clan runs each of the provinces (not necessarily the house with the most military might - this is one aspect where politics comes into play in the Empire).

Each of the clans still has some houses with Fira lords, though there are plenty that don't. There are plenty of bastards born throughout the empire, and on those occasions in the past where a Fira lord was killed without a Fira heir. On these occasions one of the bastards has come to power. Now, there are many houses with either half-giant, or even human, lords.

Aside from the clan-house relationships within the Empire, there is a completely separate level of politics. Houses from various clans often join together for political purposes that suit their own specific needs, but may not suit their clans (Shane should be familiar with the political system from the Empire trilogy by Raymond Feist and Janny Wurts.

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Hanlon's Razor - Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.

Last edited on 09 Jul 2015 20:56 by blairos Show more

Re: H-T Giants

Connors 10 Jul 2015 03:32

Cool. I like.

Still not clear on the many cultural influences. Are we attributing one of them to the fira? eg Russian?

But I need to know the answer the the Q's re stats etc before I can actually do anything. I am happy to just use old-style firbolgs for the main race (but not for players). There is plenty of shape-shifting powers attributed them - main one would be alter self but add that they can change size. But I am more concerned with the half-fira. These would be the playable race. So, again, can we use the Diamond Throne giant-kin subrace from the Races Page at CC? Do those stats and ideas (of the stewardship and war stances) fit?

If not, I need to write up a new subrace for giant kin. Otherwise, I just write under the subrace that is there that this is what we use for the half-fira in Kage.

I don't see a need to make these like hill giants or anything. We can still use firbolgs as the basis for the main race. I am more interested in what STATS we can use for the half-castes. I don't want to align them to the ceremonial idea we had for giants. I like they are a separate group.

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“It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit.” – Harry S. Truman

Last edited on 10 Jul 2015 03:34 by Connors Show more

Re: H-T Giants

blairos 10 Jul 2015 09:42

I never distinguished the cultural influences by the races. The Spirit worshipping ties in equally well with the Japanese influence as it does with the Russian.

I feel the 'Clan' model comes from the Fira, but the houses/politics comes from the humans. Many of the naming conventions come from the amalgamation of the two.

The Fira themselves would need to be written up at some point, as there are clans that did not join the Empire and still control large swathes of the mountains. For the half-fira, they would be fine to use the Half-Giant or Hu-Charad write-ups for those born to houses within the Empire. If players wanted to have a half-fira born to one of the wild clans, the half-giant write-up would probably be more accurate, though would have to change the Desert Born trait to something like Snow Born, which would basically be the same but resistant to extreme cold and moving in snow/ice.

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Hanlon's Razor - Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.

Re: H-T Giants

Connors 10 Jul 2015 09:50

Okay, so you think difference subraces. Rather than that, why not just that the ones in the empire/ruling classes are under the sway of the ritual that means 'steward/caretaker', whilst those in the wilds remain under the 'wardance'. If they are exactly the same race, then do we need subraces, or is this more of an outlook distinction. (have a look in your Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed… you know my fav book ;)).

If you go half-giant, then we also need to change psionics.

If you ask me, the hu=charad (giants of the DT) would be suitable, but we modify for the setting slightly, such as adding frost born. As far as the actual giants go, no hurry there. Until we have to fight one ;), but we could wait to see how firbolgs look in 5E.

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“It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit.” – Harry S. Truman

Re: H-T Giants

Connors 24 Jul 2015 02:40

Okay, so on stats… Need to get this first.

I am going to go with the Giants of the Diamond Throne, though I think I need to distinguish those between the 2 stances: steward vs war dance. This is same subrace, but different ritual/mindset.

I reckon I need to represent this in the rules. A feature and flaw that swaps to either would be easy.

Eg: Gain Diplomacy, but swaps to Intimidation.

I will have another go, but I reckon this will suit the Fira perfectly.

I will use a more generic name, and state that in the DT they are known as hu-charad, on Kage, fira, etc.

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“It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit.” – Harry S. Truman